Stepping back into Aldea

[Nick]

When Blue Rose and True 20 first came out I was there and immediatly fired up a campign with my buddies. They loved playing in Aldea and they loved True 20 far better than D20. Then when the True 20 hardcover came out I converted my homebrew swords and sorcery setting and we have been playing it ever since.
A couple days ago I got in the Blue Rose Companion and World of Aldea to complete the collection (Thanks Pramas! ) and have been really thinking of starting up a new Blue Rose campaign to play with my new players. The only problem is Im nervous about the rules differences in Blue Rose than in standard True 20 such as escalating Toughness and no skill points. I dont want to change the Blue Rose rules because they are perfect for romantic fantasy, and so I was just wondering if anyone has made the jump from Blue Rose to True 20 and then back to Blue Rose. If so were there any difficulties or problems in the transition? I have three new players who a currently in their first roleplaying campaign ever and one old player so I want it to be a very easy transition.

[skywalker]

If so were there any difficulties or problems in the transition?

There are a number of things improved on True 20. On saying that BR is still very good (especially with the Companion) and for new players I wouldn't make any house rules.

The things that I would house rule if I considered it important:

1. Conviction works better in True 20.
2. Favoured skills are confusing and a pain.
3. Escalating Toughness and Armour add to Defence would go.

These have a number of consequences throughout the rules, especially number 3. You need to check all the feats and arcana that grant a damage bonus to ensure that they match non-escalating toughness.

I hope that one day we might see a Blue Rose book for use with True 20 which contains all the setting material and additional rules in BR. However, I am pretty sure it will never happen

[reverend keith]

2. Favoured skills are confusing and a pain.

Definately. I like that Blue Rose jettisoned skill points, however the favored/unfavored split was too awkward in play.

That said, I was dissapointed that they are in True 20, as it returned the nickpicking complexity that I wanted removed from my d20 gaming. (Ugh. Spending skills for a 15th level antagonists without a spreadsheet... Kill me...). My gaming group has been happy with our middle ground between by-the-book-BR and True 20/D&D, and I forsee using these rules for my antagonists in any future True 20 gaming.

1) Characters no longer longer create a list of favored skills.

2) There are only three states for skills:
a) Unknown (not known in BR). (Ranks = 0)
b) Normal (known unfavored in BR). (Ranks = (level + 3) / 2)
c) Favored (known favored in BR). (Ranks = level + 3)

3) Eliminate the Skill Affinity feat. Since there are no favored yet not known skills, the feat is redundant.

4) Add the Skill Familiarity feat. Skill Familiarity allows the PC to pick up to four skills and upgrade them one step. Picking a skill twice upgrades it twice. For example:
* four skills can be upgraded from "unknown" to "normal"
* four from "normal" to "favored"
* two skills from "unknown" to "favored"
* or two skills can be upgraded from "unknown" to "normal" and one from "unknown" to "favored".

5) Eliminate the Skill Training feat, as it's now handled by Skill Familiarity.

[Nick]

thanks for the replies. I decided Im gonna propose to the group that we also start up a Blue Rose campaign (after finally getting all three books I just cant help it ). I think Ill just leave the rules as is and just explain to the new players its just a little different from True 20. I may change the wealth system (because I cant stand it) but other than that I think we'll just go for it.

[skywalker]

thanks for the replies. I decided Im gonna propose to the group that we also start up a Blue Rose campaign (after finally getting all three books I just cant help it ). I think Ill just leave the rules as is and just explain to the new players its just a little different from True 20. I may change the wealth system (because I cant stand it) but other than that I think we'll just go for it.

The set of 3 books presents one of the most playable RPG settings I know of. The Companion and WoA are just right, with a good variety for PCs, depth in the setting but with room to move and plenty of cool ideas. Not too much or too little.

[timemrick]

That said, I was dissapointed that they are in True 20, as it returned the nickpicking complexity that I wanted removed from my d20 gaming. (Ugh. Spending skills for a 15th level antagonists without a spreadsheet... Kill me...).

The True20 book has a sidebar on Quick Narrator Characters, which essentially uses the Blue Rose model: choose starting skills, then put them all at (level +3) ranks, on the assumption that the characters would spend their skill points to keep those skills maxed out.

IMO, the biggest benefit to the current compromise between BR-style skills and d20-style skill points is not having to burn a feat in order to learn a single new language or acquire minimal competency in a "trained only" skill.

[reverend keith]

That said, I was dissapointed that they are in True 20, as it returned the nickpicking complexity that I wanted removed from my d20 gaming. (Ugh. Spending skills for a 15th level antagonists without a spreadsheet... Kill me...).

The True20 book has a sidebar on Quick Narrator Characters, which essentially uses the Blue Rose model: choose starting skills, then put them all at (level +3) ranks, on the assumption that the characters would spend their skill points to keep those skills maxed out.

IMO, the biggest benefit to the current compromise between BR-style skills and d20-style skill points is not having to burn a feat in order to learn a single new language or acquire minimal competency in a "trained only" skill.

How is what True 20 doing not exactly what D&D is doing? The Quick Narrator Characters section works fine, so long as you never purchase any skills beyond what your start with at character creation. I guess you can raise your Intelligence for more points, but personally, I prefer my house rule.

[Nick]

At long last, after doing some more True 20 stuff and tooling with my own roleplaying system, I will be starting an actual Blue Rose campaign! It is an epic fantasy called Legends of Lar'tya and will take those characters from their homeland on those exotic isles to every other nation in mainland Aldea and from levels 1 to 20. It's gonna be great. Ill be posting in the Story Hour.

[Klaus Æ. Mogensen]

Like Reverend Keith, I rejected the favored/unfavored skill system for a system of fully trained/half-trained skills. I also give Experts fewer skills at level 1, but in return they get to upgrade one skill (not trained to half-trained or half-trained to fully trained) every level. For more details, see the current discussion on the True20 Rules list.

I have also changed armor to add to Toughness rather than Defense without changing any other Toughness/Defense rules (except slight modifications to two of the armor types).

- Klaus

[Ragwaine]

I don't get it Reverend. How are your 1st and 2nd points (a-d) different than the BR rules?

If the player doesn't pick a list of favored skills then how do you decide which are "trained"?

Are you just changing the names to make them more intuitive? Trained instead of favored?[/quote]

[Klaus Æ. Mogensen]

I don't get it Reverend. How are your 1st and 2nd points (a-d) different than the BR rules?
If the player doesn't pick a list of favored skills then how do you decide which are "trained"?

In my system (which is very similar to Reverend's), characters start with their cultural background skills as "half-trained" (rank = (3+level)/2); all other skills are initially untrained (rank = 0).
At 1st level, characters get 2 + 2*Int 'upgrades', where an upgrade can be used to either raise an untrained skill to half-trained or raise a half-trained skill to trained (rank = 3+level).
Experts get three extra upgrades at level 1 and one extra upgrade each level after this (this is to make Experts less 'front-loaded'). Humans get +1 upgrade. The Skill Training feat gives 4 extra upgrades; the Skill Affinity feat is removed.

There is no favored/unfavored; skills go from untrained to half-trained to trained.

- Klaus

[Ragwaine]

Those modifications sound like a good idea Klaus. But again the changing of the names from favored to trained is just a name change right? I mean they both mean lvl+3. So the only thing you've "really" changed is the number of favored skills a character gets (and when they get them for Experts). And how the skill feats work.

[Klaus Æ. Mogensen]

The changing of the names from favored to trained is just a name change right? I mean they both mean lvl+3. So the only thing you've "really" changed is the number of favored skills a character gets (and when they get them for Experts). And how the skill feats work.

Not quite. In standard BR, you can have 4 states of skills: favored/untrained, favored/trained, normal/untrained, and normal/trained. You have to decide all your favored skills at level 1, even though many of may never be trained (even those that derive from your background culture). A favored/untrained skill is no better than an normal/untrained, but you get more out of training a favored skill than a normal skill.

In my system (and Reverend Keith's), you only have 3 states of skills: Untrained, half-trained, and trained. Untrained skills here correspond to normal/untrained, half-trained correspond to normal/trained, and trained correspond to favored/trained. Nothing in this system corresponds to favored/untrained.

In my system, you get all cultural background skills as half-trained, so all characters will be at least somewhat trained in these - in standard BR, you may be untrained (rank 0) in all of them. In my system, characters have more flexibility than in standard BR, since they can choose to spend their skill points to upgrade their background skills to fully trained or instead to get more half-trained skills for a wider, less proficient skill base.

- Klaus

[Ragwaine]

WOW!

That is amazing. It totally changes my game. I thought the whole idea was to simplify things. The way I read the rules. A first level warrior got 4 ranks in 6 skills of his choice and craft. Then he got 2 ranks in 2 others (+ his intelligence score) known skills. All favored and known skills were trained.

But now, between your posts and rereading the rules 2 or 3 times I get it. I had been thinking all along, "Man these characters get a lot of skill points." But I assumed it was somehow balancing out the new system.

Thanks for the clarification guys. Now I can go through your posts again and they will make sense. Then I can decide on how/if I want change the way the BR rules are setup. I have to say my players are going to be disappointed, when more than half their skills are stripped away. But they're only 2nd level anyway so at least I caught it early.

[Stareyes]

Experts get three extra upgrades at level 1 and one extra upgrade each level after this (this is to make Experts less 'front-loaded').

So Experts get 5 upgrades, plus one for every level after that (plus ones for intelligence/being Human). So a Level 20 expert would have had 24 upgrades, if I do the math right? That seems like a lot.