Adjustments to Static Damage: More Bruising

[barsoomcore]

Hey folks

After a lot of playtesting, I'm finding the static damage system a little unsatisfying.

The thing is, almost nobody ever suffers a more serious injury because they've used up the previous levels' injuries. A character never uses up their Bruised/Hurt prior to suffering a Staggered/Disabled as a result of missing a Toughness save by more than 15. Given that a Toughness save DC is almost always going to be above 15, and that most characters will have a Toughness save bonus of less than +5, characters are just as likely to suffer a Wounded/Dazed as they are a Bruised/Hurt -- that is, there's a range of 25% in which each result will happen. Indeed, given that there's very often a 15-point (or greater) range between Toughness save DC and Toughness bonus, a Staggered/Disabled result is often just as likely as both Wounded/Dazed and Bruised/Hurt.

This means A) the Warrior core ability is almost never useful, and B) the whole point of escalating damage is kind of lost. The anticipated effect of watching those wound boxes get marked off, and feeling a heightened sense of dread, just isn't coming across.

The other thing is, the -2 penalty for Wounded is likely to get applied very early on in combat, and so rather than being a fun thing to have to work around, it's just a standard part of being in combat. Which results in me at least almost always forgetting it.

So, I have a solution in mind, and would like some feedback.

My solution is to adjust the ranges for the various damage levels as follows:

Miss Toughness DC by up to 9: Bruised/Hurt
Miss Toughness DC by 10-14: Wounded/Dazed
Miss Toughness DC by 15-19: Staggered/Disabled
Miss Toughness DC by 20-24: Unconscious/Dying
Miss Toughness DC by 25+: Dead

In addition, I propose to have four boxes under Bruised/Hurt, and only one Wounded/Dazed.

My hope is that this will have the effect of making the escalating damage more significant in game play, and that the Wounded penalty is more impactful and less "Oh yeah, as always, my character suddenly starts sucking again."

Thoughts?

[ValhallaGH]

Thinking. Will reply when I have something to say.

[Baduin]

Seems to make sense.

Remember that my original static system was not exactly designed to work well - it was designed to work similarly to the original system. If you are willing to change things, I would suggest keeping only 3 boxes for Hurt.

I would also suggest to keep Death at "Miss Toughness DC by 20", for example with such a rule:

"Dead/Dying: If you suffer Dying/Dead result, you die if the damage of the attack was equal at least Toughness+5. Otherwise, you are Dying. Characters who are dying and receive again Dying condition become Dead. Ordinaries, that is NPCs and creatures which cannot have Conviction, can be always killed at the option of the attacking character."

This way it is possible to kill people with one blow, although in rather exceptional circumstances - eg with critical hits.

I would also replace the Stunned and Shaken penalties with something different - DC Adventures did it, too.
http://mutantsandmasterminds.com/dc_adv ... -start.php

I think both removing character's actions and giving him penalties to attacks is boring. It would be better to give him penalties to defense - that way he either goes down quick (which isn't boring) or can overcome his enemy.

For example, a Wounded character could be Flat-Footed, and in addition would be only able to take a standard or move action each round (not both). By spending a standard action catching breath, the character can remove both conditions.

Finally, you could look at my fantasy variant of True20 - it goes in similar direction in regard to damage.

http://true20.wikidot.com/true20-fantasy-variant

For more extensive reworking of the rules it is best to decide at the start how many rounds a typical combat should take (optimally - not that much), what is the typical probability to hit (at least 60%, because flailing around is boring), how likely a character should be to inflict some damage when hitting etc.

[barsoomcore]

Good analysis, thanks! I'll consider options and report back.

Also, I think I need to create an NPC named "Miss Toughness".

[The Shadow]

I've wondered for quite some time if the "Wounded" condition is really pulling its own weight. (M&M gets along fine without it. Different genre, true, but still.) It's one more thing to remember and I don't see much value-added.

While it does "make sense" on one level for there to be a condition in between gradual wearing-down and a fight-ender like Disabled, I wonder if it makes sense overall?

Also, I agree with Baduin that DCA's new damage system deserves a good long look. While I haven't had the chance to play it as yet, it does look like they've solved the stun-lock problem in a reasonably satisfying way.

[barsoomcore]

Thanks, gang. Here's my plan:

Miss Toughness by no more than 9: Bruised/Hurt (3 of these, no effect)
Miss Toughness by 10 to 14: Dazed/Wounded (1, lose an round, only one action per turn)
Miss Toughness by 15 to 19: Staggered/Disabled (1, lose a round, flat-footed, only non-strenuous move actions)
Miss Toughness by 20 to 24: Unconscious/Dying (1, as per usual)
Miss Toughness by 25+: Dead

So a one-shot full kill is unlikely, but for anyone on their own, Disabled basically means Dead, so that works for me. Lethality in DINO-PIRATES is low, anyway. Will try it and let you know how it goes! Thanks again!

[ValhallaGH]

You would work that up just as I finish thinking.

Expanding the ranges of damage conditions is a start on fixing your issues. However, the real problem is the limitations of those conditions. Dazed and Stunned both completely steal the victim's turn, and while Conviction can be used to take actions anyway, that will eat up Conviction very quickly.
Throw in the -2 from Wounded and you have a formula of suck (and that's before the Toughness penalties).

Probably the most revolutionary change DCA introduced was to have fewer conditions that steal all a character's actions, and only incapacitated is on the damage track. Dazed and Stunned still remove some actions but they allow a standard now, rather than leaving a target wobbling helplessly for six or more seconds. It's another major departure from d20 but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Your proposals don't fix the action loss part. In fact, they exacerbate it a bit (I guess to make up for the decreased likelihood of taking them?), which may kill the sense of fun and action you're aiming for.

Best of luck.

[barsoomcore]

Your words are full of wisdom. I shall ponder.

[JRHigley]

Does your proposed system include the standard penalties to toughness saves as the standard rules (-1 per hurt/wounded condition) or (as your subject might imply) are you going with static toughness (a la Baduin's static toughness/damage roll system)?

[barsoomcore]

Here's the system that I've settled on:

http://dino-pirates.com/CombatDamage.php

It does indeed use static Toughness Saves.